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Archive of 2013

Reported by kukumber
on Nov 8, 2013 at 10:01
Group F: Jellenio 3-2 kukumber

4 Likes,
0 Dislikes



2 Lightside,
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Fantomas
on Nov 16, 2013 at 13:04
Thanks Joschi for making available the private forum, good to finally know the truth in all its glory

Joschi
on Nov 15, 2013 at 18:44
Hm, some guys can't without personal sidewhipes.

Since minimum 2 years the linked forum is visible for everybody!

khamski to nappy: "I have to check forums. Maybe there is some info on that case." You are welcome, too.

Kayz
on Nov 15, 2013 at 15:27
Yeah It's Won - Lost, it's not a "Ratio" indeed, mathematically speaking xD

Jellenio
on Nov 15, 2013 at 15:22
Tell me admins pls, wtf is "Game Ratio" in table for you ? -1 RATIO ? WTF !! Ratio belongs from <0, inf). Ratio = (won games/lost games), not ratio=(won games - lost game). Ratio is more fair for players !

Last modification on Nov 15, 2013 at 20:16
kukumber
on Nov 15, 2013 at 01:33
@Kayz, I only referred to canceld game to specify time period, didn't tell anything about actual game. As for "ffs" is a rude expression, simply because of what it stands for and its emotional accent.

@Khamski
Maybe you should have thought that it would be problematic to end it before you started it? It seems you only good at advising to think rather than doing it yourself. Same as you easily judge me for most weirdest things ever, but when it comes to judging you, somehow it's not my concern. Very convenient.
I asked you not to start drama, I asked you to discuss rules modifications on forum, but somehow your ego and pride wouldn't allow you to accept "bad mod" telling you things that make sense.
You're all about drama indeed, and I'm far not the first person to reveal it.

khamski
on Nov 14, 2013 at 22:34
2kukumber:

"narcissistic liar, pathetic."

My oh my... List gets updated.
Okay, for you i am like that.
I accept it.
Can we finish?

2all:
I wait for Koras - Canga game to stream it.
he always comes one hour late so maybe he will do the same this time. ))
And i invite everyone who are not sleeping already to comment.

Lets make streams not war! :)
And Let's finish this hate race finally.





Last modification on Nov 14, 2013 at 22:40
Kayz
on Nov 14, 2013 at 22:24
1) I was calm throughout all my messages, and your arrogant stuff sounds ridiculous, as I told.

You both started calmly, imo Khamski is still calm, "ffs" is just an expression of wonder (and maybe annoyance), it's not an insult, but your latest post is just rude and for sure not calm, kukumber. Instead of focussing on the actual topic, you still attack khamski for cancelling his game with chuvash and his 2009 modding work, what does this have to do with this case???
And anyway:
How can you judge about 2009 edition if you know nothing about it? You know what people told you, what you might've read in some forums, but that's it.

@Khamski:
You blame kukumber for not knowing the football rules, but then you say:

"And it had to have reasons.
I have to check forums. Maybe there is some info on that case.
Anyway every ban that took place had a reason." ,

but you didn't check it. Ok you are not a mod now, but it's still ironic and a lame joke.

Further I think it's indeed a low move that Joschi showed everyone the private section, there are even polls about "No, I hate Rafka"...
Some things should not get public xD.

But what to expect of someone who threatened to delete our forum, and the first post he makes after he wanted to depart from the normal community, reveals a private section about a 4 year old CWT edition.

Last modification on Nov 14, 2013 at 22:30
kukumber
on Nov 14, 2013 at 22:22
And that person wrote about me making wrong assumptions? Your message is one big lie and unlike me you don't even say it could possibly be incorrect. Just a narcissistic liar, pathetic.

khamski
on Nov 14, 2013 at 21:52
2kukumber:

"cwt 2009 was a failure", "40 year child", "you canceled chuvash game", "you want attention", "you are crazy about football", "fucking Gandalf of Wormnet", "Who the hell are you"...

Dude, give yourself a break.
Just chill out .

I don't need any extra respect from you.
You are a technical figure to me.
I criticized your incorrect action that wasn't the first btw.
Provided a proof link. And that's all.

You started to bring all this hate and anger here.
No need.
Relax. Accept the critics. And move on.

Questioning my merits is none of your concern.
You are quite new here.
And you have none so far.
Know your place. Behave. And everything will be fine.

p.s.
Please don't start again.
I am just a child with the world revolving around me, remember?
So show community how wise and mature you are.
And stop this non-sense right here.
I know you can handle it. :)

Peace.

Last modification on Nov 14, 2013 at 22:01
Koras
on Nov 14, 2013 at 19:22
We both know how one person miserably failed at it back in 2009.


oO if I am not wrong in 2009 u didnt even heard about this game :)
Your current friends are not 100% objective cause some of them were banned....
4 years ago I get a yellow card too so i decide to concentrate at tourney insted of "dirty talk" and I didnt had any problems to finish tourney.

CWT 2009 was really good edition, but in fact it was organized in very hard times for our community.
It was first year when new ONL started and many players decided to play this league/Play Offs insted almost dead CWT without Crespo.

IMO Khamski is the one who saved the tourney :)






Last modification on Nov 14, 2013 at 19:24
kukumber
on Nov 14, 2013 at 18:49
@DarkOne
He corrected me in a not very polite way (actually so much he wanted to tell that I was wrong he put that word first, totally changing the theme of the original conversation), I replied to him with my list of 3. And then he tells me I somehow not allowed to make assumptions cause I'm "a mod ffs", very nice of him again (I guess "ffs" here means "fancy fragile stuff", you may guess yourself although). So...
@Khamski
1) I was calm throughout all my messages, and your arrogant stuff sounds ridiculous, as I told.
2) I told you already that discussion of any suggestions belongs to forum, but it looks like I guessed right and you just want some attention here.
3) And let me finish off this the most clear possible way. Who the hell are you to tell me what to do? Why do you impose on me your views? If you want to share them feel free, one message is more than enough for that. Why do you act like some fucking Gandalf of WormNet thinking everybody needs your advise? You don't make an impression of old wise man. At all. Personally I don't have a tiny bit of respect for you, you look more like 40 years old child who wants the world to revolve around him. I told you I don't want to talk to you after you canceled the game with chuvash. Why don't you just piss off? Why do you seek for that crap again and again? Play your CWT games, have fun, and if you want respect deserve it by your actions, not by pointless "blah-blah-blah", cause "it isn't what you say, it's what you do".

P.S.
How sad it is that person half of your age should explain it all to you?

Kayz
on Nov 14, 2013 at 16:48
"You break the rules you are out.

If i'll have to ban all players except one i will.
And that last will be the champion."

LOL

Kayz
on Nov 14, 2013 at 16:45
In my opinion the main concept of 2009 was a step in the right direction, but the implementation of this concept was a failure, being so black-and-white about the rules was just ridiculous.

khamski
on Nov 14, 2013 at 12:43
Thanx, Joschi.
It's great that you finally appeared here.
I respect you for what you did to CWT too.

You did a better work as MOD than i did.
I agree with it.
2010 tournament was a great success.
And i was glad that things turned out this way.

Zemke created a site that solved a lot of problems.
And he continues to do a great work.

Although i disagree with things you mentioned.
You raged on my decision not to postpone your scheduled game and left the MOD squad.
Why didn't you say it here?

Everyone were playing by the schedule .
Everyone got tech losses for not appearing in time.
But you thought you are any better just because you were in a MOD squad and helping me.
Yes you did.
You did a great help in 2009.
But why on Earth would i give you right to postpone your game when every other player plays on schedule and get bans and tech wins for not appearing.
Never.
I didn't do it back at that days and i won't do something like that now.
Rules are same for everyone.
And MOD squad members are not an exception.

Concerning your reveal of MOD's private messages area.
it's a low move.
First you threated current MOD squad to erase the forums.
Now you reveal things that must be open only for MOD teams.

But i am not afraid of it.
I was true to everyone publicly and privately.

So read and enjoy.
I will do it myself actually. .



Last modification on Nov 14, 2013 at 13:38
Joschi
on Nov 14, 2013 at 12:17
You have big qualities and your merits for this community are big, khamski.

At the same time, the job of a moderator isn't really yours and CWT09 wasn't the necessary "shook" (with education effects and so on...) for a better future, but the low point of 11 years of CWT.

You started with a "team" of 6 moderators and finished because of disharmony all alone (+inactive Antares).

You condamned several players with bans. Players, who should have never been banned. Players, who weren't conspicious and were fully re-integrated in further tournaments without becoming conspicious. Like this, you decreased the skill level of starting field that it wasn't CWT worth (à propos qualifing games).

You was the big guy on the marketplace screaming "MODs decision is a rule", what was the completion of arbitrariness, not noticing that others turn away irritated making the inactivity even worse.

I was the second co-moderator you pushed out of your team with the words "poor child". That poor child decreased in a real team-work the technical win* rate and the playtime of tournament dramatically and re-integrated at the same time all "lifelong banned" players without your godblesses fixed schedule.

Other may have made mistakes too, but I consider that as a result of your barking.

I consider my opinion as valid, because I tried to to everything for a successful tournament, in 2009 and 2010. But only 2010 it was successful. Thanks to Zemke.

Because it was mentioned, here everybody can read the cwt09 moderation work: http://www.cwt.boards.net/board/4/2009-private-talk (formerly not visible for normal members)

Last modification on Nov 14, 2013 at 16:02
khamski
on Nov 14, 2013 at 11:54
Sorry, Jellenio but i disagree.
Current point system of CWT is awesome.
All we need is to fix the tie-breaker a bit for 2014 edition.
That's all.
But anyway it will be only a proposal.
Mods will decide.

Jellenio
on Nov 14, 2013 at 11:45
I am in love or all football statistics and if I have a vote, for me much better is CL rules and it will be good to change rules for CWT 2014. But for me, volley rules would be even better.
If you win:
3:0 - 3 points for winner, 0 for losser
3:1 - 3 points for winner, 0 for losser
3:2 - 2 points for winner, 1 point for losser.
In that situation I will have 3 points, kuku 4 points, and he move on.

Tell me admins pls, wtf is "Game Ratio" for you ? -1 RATIO ? WTF !! Ratio belongs from <0, inf>. Ratio is (won games/lost games), not (won games - lost game). Ratio is more fair for players !!

DarkOne
on Nov 14, 2013 at 11:43
Kuku, do me a favour and reread this thread :) in his post, all khamski did was correct you and give you the source.

Khamski, don't write if all you have is assumptions! Check the forum before posting, you were a mod ffs xD

khamski
on Nov 14, 2013 at 11:35
At the early days of CWT full MOD squad decisions took place.
So it couldn't be my own decision.
And it had to have reasons.
I have to check forums. Maybe there is some info on that case.
Anyway every ban that took place had a reason.
We had yellow and red cards system. So you most probably was notified of doing something wrong.

I can say more.
If you read the forums you can see that at some point community realized that all bans were fair.
Everyone got what they deserve and it was fair.
Even banned Zemke back then stated it's all fair

Then Viks situation happened.
It really blew the community with protests.
And they were fair.
It was more of an accident then an unfair mod decision.
Antares just didn't see Viks in ag.
And Viks didn't know that Antares is a mod.
I apologized for that and tourney moved on.
That's all.

It was very hard tournament but a successful one having in mind the situation we were in.
Not a single person back then agreed to be a head mod CWT 2009.
Not a single one.





Last modification on Nov 14, 2013 at 11:47
nickynick
on Nov 14, 2013 at 11:03
(No, Khamski, banning me on the very first day when I couldn't even see the schedule wasn't understandable in any way :P)

khamski
on Nov 14, 2013 at 10:03
It's funny how you bring up things you know nothing about.
Over and over again.

Okay.
CWT 2009 wasn't that bad.
Situation was very tough back then.
We managed this tournament from qualifying games to the final.
Yes there were some problems in the group stage.
But they were understandable.

Community back then didn't worship CWT like it does now.
Players wasn't active or motivated to play CWT games in time.
Few previous CWT tournaments suffered from this situation badly.

So fixed schedule was aimed to shook community up.
And it did the job.
We made players responsible for their activity.
It opened their eyes on the fact that CWT is a serious thing and everyone have to respect it.
Someone handled it.
Someone didn't.
But those who didn't came in 2010 angry and motivated.
Some of them even became mods. ;)
So CWT 2009 was a great impulse for the future progress and a real attitude changer.

Anyway there were no tech. results in PO.
Tournament was finished in time and had a happy winner.
It was a first tournament where winner got a real cup.

So it was a good mod work in a really tough situation.
It gave a great material to analyze to the mods of 2010.
A great starting point.
I am proud of my work there and i am thankful for the MOD squad for their work.
They helped a lot although we had a lot of problems.

I took responsibility for this tournament form start to finish.
Also i took responsibility for my every word and action.

So you are not in a position to call it "failure", kukumber.
You would be dead scared to even think of moding it back in january 2009. ))

Back to the present.
I am tired to read your non-sense over and over again.
Also i want you to stop using insults. Control yourself.

On the rules change.
As i said i have no complains on 2013.
I just want 2014 rules to be better.

@Kayz:
Tie happens when players (or team like in CL) have same amount of POINTS not the same stats.
And stats are used to break that tie.

In the present Jellenio/kukumber situation:
CWT tie-breaker works so kukumber would go through.
CL tie-breaker works so Jellenio would go through.

I prefer the CL tie-breaker because it is more fair.
Jellenio won game vs kukumber. He must go further.

That what i will propose for 2014 in the forums.
No complains about 2013 as i stated numerously before.
So it's all good.

But next year we can make rules even better.

Last modification on Nov 14, 2013 at 10:20
kukumber
on Nov 14, 2013 at 08:15
I was joking bout liking, even put a smiley there, no worries. :)
And yes when it comes to 3 players having one win it surely a bit disappointing for those who do not advance, especially when it's a matter of one round. This year it happened to be not me, my luck.
As for drama, it doesn't have a lot of connection to what you talked about, started from nothing, as always, so no worries bout that too.

Bytor
on Nov 14, 2013 at 08:01
Geez guys..wtf. No need for all the drama.
I like both Kukumber and Jellenio. I was just thinking from Jellenio's point of view.

I'm just not a big fan of stats or reading too much into them. It's a game not a fantasy league. Jellenio lost to Thouson. Kukumber won vs Thouson. But Jellenio won vs Kukumber. There's valid arguments on both sides like which game carries more weight. The one one between the two tied players or their past game with a 3rd party. Also the game between the two tied players was decided by a single round.
Kukumber should advance, and does. I just can't help felling bad for Jellenio going out like this.



kukumber
on Nov 14, 2013 at 07:47
I wish you were right DarkOne, but his point seems more like "you dont know rules of football, which means you are a bad mod" just a nonsense. Especially when he told that his business here is to critisize me as a mod, even though he has no idea of what I do for CWT, neither he knows what is it to be a good mod since he is a failure himself. The thing he can't get is that I didn't base my message on what I recalled about football, thus it doesn't have to be absolutely correct, in fact I could refer to quidditch and it won't change anything there ("I think they play bo5 in quidditch too" - "No, you're wrong, it's a shame for mod not to know that", that's just ridiculous). If I based my point on it I would make a research, but in that case it was just an addition and nothing more. "I think it's same in football" well maybe it's not, so what, it doesn't change CWT system anyway which was the point. And I still wonder along with Kayz, why would Khamski enter in the middle of conversation which has nothing to do with himself.

Kayz
on Nov 13, 2013 at 23:34
I see nothing unfair in Jellenio not advancing, he lost to Thouson, kukumber won Thouson 3-0 --> better performance.

It's a group stage, so the whole group is involved... As Khamski said: In the 3 people tie kukumber'd still win. We don't need to change the system, because this game wasn't a tie-break between two players, kukumber had better stats, so it wasn't a tie-break. A tie-break requires the two players to be equal in standing (that's quite the definition of a tie), and that wasn't the case.
So kukumber deserved this spot, even though he lost to Jellenio with winning Thouson 3-0, which Jellenio didn't.
I don't see a problem, and I agree, as a mod you should check things up before you assume stuff, but there was no need for an almost 4000 letter block, Khams ;o And I never understood why people complained who aren't even involved, it was the same with the Johnmir vs. Fenrys case...

DarkOne
on Nov 13, 2013 at 22:45
He keeps saying one thing: Look stuff up before you post about it if you're not sure about it. Seems useful to me! :)
It's what I do when modding. Memory isn't perfect, you know :)

kukumber
on Nov 13, 2013 at 21:15
A lot of words, a lot of ego, a lot of show off. Nothing useful. Childish as always.

khamski
on Nov 13, 2013 at 20:04
>Rules for group games were there upon sign ups, and they are same as the last year,
>if someone doesn't read them it's his own fault.


I read rules and i have no complains about them.
My proposal is about 2014 edition.
Read carefully and pay attention please.

>And again you twist things

What did I twist? I criticized you for making incorrect statements. No twists.

>.. I never claimed the thing I told about football to be absolutely correct,
> and it doesn't need to be correct,
> and I don't need to waste my time on learning something ...


I totally disagree.
Of course you need to give yourself some time to do a research.
What kind of a mod are you if you yak about stuff you just don't know?
Get busy a bit. Mod work takes something you know.

>But of course as crazy about football as you are you would think that was the
>most important thing in the message.


Why you constantly bring up some irrelevant things and try to hide behind them?
I clearly don't think that football is most important thing in your message.
I just say that you use incorrect information to prove your point.
That is what mod shouldn't do.

>Now let me make one more assumption. If we were judging by football rules we would have
>3 people with 3 points and it would end up with me advancing due stats anyway.


Finally you started to read before writing.

So you basically propose to review a hypothetical situation where
Thouson plays 2-3 vs Fantomas and ends up with 4 points. Same as you and Jellenio.
And you get a 3-player tie.

Okay.

CL system will use exactly same algorithm in this case.
But result will be different.

Why is this a problem?

According to CL system:
In the 2 player tie-breaker (you, Jellenio) you lose.
In the 3-player tie-breaker(you, Jellenio, Thouson) you win.

It is totally fair. Why do you think there is any contradiction?

Fact that you would advance in the 3 player tie-breaker don't change the fact that Jellenio should advance in 2 player tie-breaker vs you.

There also is no extra code work. Just changing one formula.
System will still be automatic just a bit more fair.

>And the fact it's the first issue about the system only confirms it,
>especially given the fact you wouldn't
>give a single damn about it if it was someone else advancing rather than me.


I have nothing against CWT 2013 system.
We had an opportunity to change it.
We didn't care.
So we can't complain.

Also i didn't question your place in PO.
You got it in a fair battle.
Jellenio knew what he needs to do and he failed the task.

I criticized you for your incorrect statements and made a proposal for 2014 edition point calculating system.
That's all.
Pay attention please. Don't jump on me with false accusations without a second thought.
You are making too many bad moves to carry on.

>If you don't understand something it doesn't mean it's wrong.

I understand everything good.
You are the one who have problems with understanding facts and accepting the critics.
Just improve as a mod.
No need to start a hate race.

>You have an idea? Post it on forum, it will be discussed. Want some attention? Sorry it's not the place.

It is obvious i will post my idea on forums. And i don't need any advices from a forum-hater like you to do that.
Possible rules changing for a next season can't be decided in a game comments.
It was just a quick heads up.

>So what's your business here anyway?

I don't like your mod work and I criticize you for that.
In a calm manner. Using facts.
Mods have to be serious and responsible for their words.
Having indolent talker as a CWT mod is just bad.
Change your attitude towards critics. Stop reacting on on it by throwing insults back.
It looks bad.

> P.S.
> Quite funny to hear this arrogant stuff about deep breathing and thinking from the likes of you.


I wasn't arrogant.
Just wanted to calm you down.


Last modification on Nov 13, 2013 at 20:17
kukumber
on Nov 13, 2013 at 14:26
Rules for group games were there upon sign ups, and they are same as the last year, if someone doesn't read them it's his own fault. We play worms here, so I qouted CWT rules and guessed they are similar to football.
And again you twist things, I never claimed the thing I told about football to be absolutely correct, and it doesn't need to be correct, and I don't need to waste my time on learning something which would be of no use to me, there was totally no serious relevance to football. But of course as crazy about football as you are you would think that was the most important thing in the message.
Now let me make one more assumption. If we were judging by football rules we would have 3 people with 3 points and it would end up with me advancing due stats anyway. Current system is designed to compensate close games automatically and it does great job. And the fact it's the first issue about the system only confirms it, especially given the fact you wouldn't give a single damn about it if it was someone else advancing rather than me.
If you don't understand something it doesn't mean it's wrong.
You have an idea? Post it on forum, it will be discussed. Want some attention? Sorry it's not the place. So what's your business here anyway?

P.S.
Quite funny to hear this arrogant stuff about deep breathing and thinking from the likes of you.

nickynick
on Nov 13, 2013 at 13:20
It's cool this site comes with popcorn, sometimes it's very useful.

khamski
on Nov 13, 2013 at 12:27
We discuss tie breaker situations here and all my comments are precisely fit the topic.

So while discussing it you were posting incorrect things.
Things that are in doubt even for yourself.
So whats the point of doing that?

Why not just check things in the Internet before you write?
Don't be lazy. Just do it next time.

Drama starting?
Bringing up your assumptions and insults about things that happened 4 years ago is in fact starting a drama.
And It's definitely not the topic of this discussion.

Just take a deep breath, calm down and take my advice to think next time before you write something to make your comments worth reading.

Okay.
To make a clear constructive input i propose to follow CL rules for group tie-breaker situations in 2014 edition.
If two players have same amount of points player that won the game (against player with same amount of points) should go through.

Just a heads up though. It's for mods to decide.




kukumber
on Nov 13, 2013 at 10:49
Statement "as far as i remember" comprises certain amount of doubt. Read carefully, no surprise you didn't read my message when we had drops with Jellenio either and claimed nobody saw it even though Jellenio replied to me.
As for your constant complains about me being a bad mod. We both know how one person miserably failed at it back in 2009. All he did was walking around saying "MODS WORD IS A RULE" and banning people for nothing. So don't you dare to say anything about it again.
Last but not least, if you want one more drama go somewhere else please, we discussed group standings here, your constant desire to prove me wrong has nothing to do with it.

khamski
on Nov 13, 2013 at 10:16
"I stated quite clearly I'm not sure..."

Next time give yourself some time to check things before you write it.
Be sure in what you write.
You are a CWT mod ffs.


kukumber
on Nov 13, 2013 at 09:58
1) I stated quite clearly I'm not sure of how those things are in football.
2) Assuming does not suppose any proofs, it's just a guess, so I don't feel reading anything about football, especially since I lost any interest to it long ago.
3) Khamski would say to himself "Don't bark at me".

khamski
on Nov 13, 2013 at 09:36
Wrong.
Read CL rules before assuming things.

=============
Regulations of the UEFA Champions League.
...
If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches,
the following criteria are applied to determine the rankings (in descending
order):
a) higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the
teams in question;
b) superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams
in question... and so on.
c) higher number of goals scored ....
==================

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/Regulations/01/79/68/69/1796869_DOWNLOAD.pdf



kukumber
on Nov 13, 2013 at 08:36
My overall performance in group was slightly better, that's pretty much it. Group stage is based on 3 games.
My games 3-0, 2-3, 1-3
Jellenio's games 3-2, 2-3, 1-3.
Actually I wonder what's the problem. You don't like me that much? :)

I'm not a huge fan of football, but group stage system is quite similar there as far as I remember, goal difference and goals scored are involved in case of same amount of points.

Last modification on Nov 13, 2013 at 08:49
Bytor
on Nov 13, 2013 at 07:17
So you lwon due to sats (round ratio) even though you lost the game against him...that seams harsh.

kukumber
on Nov 12, 2013 at 08:55
Extract from rules:
In case of same amount of points: equal points -> game ratio -> round ratio -> decisive best-of-five match

Bytor
on Nov 12, 2013 at 04:28
Ok I'm confused. Jellenio & Kukumber are tied in points. Wouldn't the winner of the tied player's game move on?

Jellenio
on Nov 9, 2013 at 01:18
That 2-nd round... I could easy end it but I had to plop my own worm... Gl in PO dude, PLS do tour best and if you will lose
0:3, I will find you and I will kill you ;)

Koras
on Nov 8, 2013 at 21:05
exactyly, so close...
GLin PO kuku!

Zemke
on Nov 8, 2013 at 20:23
Har, close one, Jellenio. Next chance in 2014!

Gratz, Kukumberous.